Mike,

You are wrong in your statement that "only one player that has ever entered the draft has stayed with the team longer than the mandatory one year" . For example, on our team, the Twins, both of our draft picks in the past 2 years have chosen to stay with us. They are Mike Ruslander and Stefan Koutsakis, both excellent players. And, anyone who has been paying attention knows that the draft pick for the Whiz a couple of years ago, Mike Kane, has stayed with the Whiz.

The Peppers draft pick from last season opted to move on to the team his brother plays on. I do not know about the rest of the draftees.

It is true that there have been teams that did not take players in the draft primarily because they were already overloaded with talent and they did not need anyone.

There have been complaints that some teams in the past have not wanted to play teams that were not challenging enough. The draft has been an attempt to create some parity and I believe it has been pretty successful. But, it will take several more years to be given a fair chance.If there is no draft and players from the 45's can join whatever team they want, then it will result in 2 or 3 teams getting weaker and weaker and folding.

Regarding the Cardinals and requirements to play in Kingston. That will change. Too far from the Capital District.

And, your point that first time players to the league are not subject to the draft is correct. Perhaps that needs to change so that any and all new players to the 55's must go through the draft. I would have no problem with that.

Thank you Don.

In your next to the last paragraph, you mention that players are being excluded from the 55 division. Actually, no one is being excluded since the 55's are open to whoever wants to play whether it's a first time player or coming through the draft. No one is being excluded. If someone doesn't want to play for one reason or another, that is their decision to make.





-- Edited by crowbait on Tuesday 12th of December 2017 06:05:30 PM

To All my CDMSBL friends,

I usually don't comment on things but I do read the bulletin board whenever there is a new post. I have to say it can be quite entertaining at times but always informative!

With this said draft, No draft, really what difference does it make? We are grown men who are still capable of playing a kids game. We are fortunate!

For the record there are a lot of sports that are pay to play and they have a draft for instance bowling will cost you a small fortune and in some of your more competative leagues each year new bowlers are subject to a draft. Some softball, flag football and I'm sure there are others that have a draft and sometimes you aren't even selected. We are fortunate there are many sports that are slowly dying and are desperately looking for players and we have what appears to be an abundance available.

I understand we are all competitive by nature and we all want to win. Hell, we are Americans it's in our blood and regardless of how hard you try to make things even there are always two or three teams that are stronger than the rest in any sport or division. If you are waiting on a major league contract to come your way then by all means you need to land on a top qualityh team in the 18 division, but we all know at our age that, that boat has sailed!

What it comes down to is the team chemistry. If you are on a team that has great chemistry then being together as a group overshadows the win/lose record and as a team you never give up. That comes from having a strong, fair leader in place on each team.

My quest today is just to say why not a draft?Why not Form a new team? or why not just open it up this year to get everyone eligible thats wants to play on a 55 team? I don't care where I land I just want to meet some new friends, raise hell in the dugout and play the game I still love.

Mike Kocienski

Well, I am not 55 yet so I don't qualify - but if I did, you could count me in Mike G.'s list of guys who would avoid playing the 55's because of the draft. I don't believe that there should be a mechanism in place designed to force a player who pays money to play a sport onto any one team - regardless of how good or bad a team is.


I think you'd find that if you took some raw data, new players who have never played in the league before and joined a team (regardless of age division) in large part join teams in need of help. I know that as a manager of teams who have struggled, we often get opportunities at new players that the teams near the top of the standings do not. Those teams are often filled with established players who like to play together and there's little room for new players to get any playing time.


If you're a manager of a team who needs improvement you shouldn't want a draft to make those improvements - especially if making friends and camaraderie are your end goals. You should be seeking new players, new to the league who have the talent needed to make the team better on the field. The "friendship and camaraderie" have already been established with guys moving from one division to the next - they've played with guys they like already.


If a true "draft" is what you want, then whichever division has a draft should limits the entrants of the draft to players who have never played before in the league; and while I still don't like that idea, it at least seems a fair compromise to forcing established league players into a draft system.

-- Edited by The_Hurricane on Wednesday 13th of December 2017 10:20:36 AM

I wasn't privy to the specifics of last year's draft, but some of the teams that this draft was designed to help, declined the players available
when their turn came. As a result, because he didn't want to turn players away, John Reel signed 4-5 undrafted players at the end of the final round, gumming up the Marlins roster.
When a friend (old high school teammate), who was a free agent, asked if he could join our team, we had to turn him away because the roster was
overloaded. That shouldn't happen. If you want to force a draft, then you need to be forced to draft some one when it is your turn to draft.

It seems like 2 or 3 managers, that can't get any quality ball players to volunteer to join them, want the division to force them onto their teams, so that they can"compete".
This isn't socialism, and I only care what other adult men's baseball leagues (not softball, or bowling) do regarding new players joining.
There was nothing broken here until you gentlemen decided to fix it.
If the manager can't get quality players to join his team, then maybe it is time to change managers.

I'm telling you that 3-5 top players deciding not to join the division, due to a forced draft, is way too many.
If it keeps up, I suggest that you will see players looking to go elsewhere to play their baseball.
Just my opinion.

Mike,

In the case of our team, the Twins, we did pick up several "quality" players this past season that were new to the league and volnteered to join us as well as what we got in the draft. And we kept five guys that might be called low producing players. You probably have a different name for them. Not because we had to but because it was the right thing to do.

Too many of the things you are stating are guesses at best.

I have no desire to fight with you. I think that is best left in the 8th grade.

You have your opinions and others have theirs. None of us get our way all the time. And it doesn't help to try to strongarm others just because you may not agree with them.





-- Edited by crowbait on Wednesday 13th of December 2017 02:38:09 PM

To Mike Girard's point, let's say you had implemented a clause in the draft that said new ("community'') players must go through the draft. I can tell you for certainty right now that Mark Massaroni, Tom Maguire, Doug O'Brey and Bob Murphy would not be in the league. They decided to play again for old-times sake because they played together in the Twilight League and thought it would be fun to hang together again and play some ball. No way would they have gone into the draft. Bob Bolt the same thing. He took a couple of years off and decided to come back at age 55. Since he played with us on the 45 Giants, he emphatically said he would not play if he had to enter the draft.

The effect: Giants would not be as good and the division would be weaker because of it. I hope that is not our mission.

I've been accused of wanting to just blow away all of the competition. NO! I want the division to rise to our level, not fall to the level of other teams. I realize that sounds elitist, but it's not. We have assembled a 55 team that has been extremely competitive in national tournaments the past two years in Arizona. We were two outs from winning a title in 2016. We lost a heart-breaker 4-0 in the semis this year with the Calif. team that beat us winning the title. So, locally, we want to play against the best to prepare for those tournaments. For guys like Steve Lounello, Dave Mitchell, the players Lex knows and so many others who don't want to enter the draft, to me robs the division of what it could be - one of the best 55 divisions in the country.

To another point: our team has 16 on its roster. I would get the last or next-to-last pick. First, there weren't enough players to even allow me a pick two years ago and last year we passed. We'd pass this year as well because I don't want 17, 18 or 20 players. I lost Doug O'Brey because he moved to San Diego and we replaced him with Ron Massaroni because he wanted to play some ball with his brother, Mark.

And to be up-front here, too, I have another three community players we could add but can't right now unless we open a slot or three. And if you want to know who they are and how to contact them, it wouldn't help because they know players on our team and don't want to play again if it means joining a group they don't know. A draft would be much easier in the 18 Division. In the 55s, teammates have formed bonds over the years and they don't want to start anew. It's just the way it is and it should be respected.

As for pay-to-play: If I am going to spend more than $200 on some electronic device, I get the one I want, not another one that the store clerk wants to sell me. Guys pay to play and should have the freedom to play where they want. It's been that way for a whole lot of years in this league. Yes, MLB has a draft, but not within MLB itself. It's a free-agent or college draft. Curt Flood sacrificed his career to give established players freedom of movement.

Yes, Jim E., your team has done well in the draft. The Whiz benefited from just one player, but he happens to be a stud pitcher, which is really the only way a team can win. So, that's two teams that have benefited. It has hurt the Peppers and the Cardinals. I don't believe the Yankees, Americans, Marlins have been impacted as much except perhaps the point Mike G. made about Reel taking on 4-5 players and having too many on the roster. And that's not a positive when 20 guys show up for a game - or a positive if the players don't improve the team.

Geez, just imagine if Mike G. did come to the Giants! I'd lose a draft pick? Sounds like a fair swap to me. That in and of itself is why the draft can't - and won't - work. The Marlins would lose one of the premier players in all of CDMSBL and would get a 7th or 8th pick in the draft (plus the pick they are entitled to), meaning they'd likely be impacted negatively by the draft. The Peppers just lost Ron Massaroni to the Giants; the Peppers' draft picks will be hard pressed to make up for that loss.

Another point: If you force a team to make a draft pick, then said draft pick will be subject to making the team - just like when a player is drafted in any sport. So, a draftee may not be on a team. Now what are you going to do? Force me to put him on the roster? OK. I take his money and he's on the roster. Now, are you going to tell me I have to play him? OK. Ahead of whom? Is it fair to an established guy on the team who is a good player and has been around for 5-15 years that he has to sit for a "rookie'' we really didn't want in the first place? Seriously, where do we draw the line here, guys?

Without a draft, this division will work itself out. Evolution has a way of changing things. It's been that way in the 28s, 38s, 48s, 25s, 35 and 45s since the inception of each division. I played on last-place teams and teams that were mercy-ruled several times over the years. It takes work if you want to be a serious challenger. Go to 45 Division games and recruit players who will turn 55 the following year. Hell, do that now to get those who refuse to be drafted. They may change their minds if they have a freedom of choice and after actually talking to the person in charge of the team. It beats the unknown of a draft.

And BTW, to clarify, I am not responsible for the "community'' players on the Giants: Fred Pigeon recruited them for us. He's the one who played with them in the Twilight League. I was on another team. All players on all of your teams should be doing the same for you.

There's a of of talent becoming eligible. Go talk to those guys. That's what they'd prefer - not a draft. Mike G. is correct, poll the 45 division players and see if they want a draft. My guess is that the nays would outnumber the yays - probably by a lot.

I'd propose we put a one-year moratorium on the draft. That way the GMs can go all out to recruit these 55 players who might reconsider playing if they aren't forced to play where they don't want to.

jk

Hey Mike,
Come back to the 45's, You will be the Bombers 1st round draft pick. [LOL]

SMH
Boys,
The answer here is plain as the former baseball talent you used to have.Stop whining and join the kickball league,where every red bloodied man and woomen of particular femalian sympathies are free to become what they have always wanted to become. We have a good time playing with each other,and no player has been left behind. Our travel team has just returned with impressive tales of their exploits in south Florida.(thanks Randy,for hosting the squad).
We do have some openings that need to be filled,and we are also looking for more sponsors.
P.S.- A meeting will be held to decide whether or not we should have a meeting.All are welcome.
Get there early for a good seat.

Poppa Pump

Hi fellah's. I don't post much but this topic was pretty interesting. I'm an anti drafter also, it just feels weird that you can't join up with your buddies if you want to. Some of us on the quieter side don't feel comfortable meeting up with new teammates and trying to fit in, not know who else plays your position, etc. I know that being a Giant, some would say it easy for me to say. But when me , Pete, Tony, and Whit entered the league a few years ago we didn't know anything about the league, the team, or have any aspirations other than playing more baseball. If we couldn't play together, we probably wouldn't have joined. What if a couple buddies wanted to join a team together, even if the team was say 5-11 the previous year, they couldn't do it ?
If we really get a 65 division going and there's a draft, I won't enter it, even if health allows.

Anyway, just another opinion from another guy in the league. Everybody have a great Christmas and I'll see you in a few months.

He said "entered".
Huh huh huh huhuhuh.
That's cool.

Off my meds so I can enjoy the holidays.
Peace on earth.
Goodwill to all.

Seems to me the emphasis for the local league season should be on the local league only. If there are some who have as the top priority post season tournament play that is not officially part of the CDMSBL that is fine. Go for it once the playoffs are done. However, most players in the 55's stop playing once the CDMSBL season is done in late July or by mid August. Those who want to tune up for tournaments in Florida, Arizona, or elsewhere have the rest of August, September, and October to get ready to go south and west. But, I am sorry to say that I do understand that whatever I may post will rub someone the wrong way. Not my intention. But, this is one man's perspective.

I know what you are saying, but they are MSBL National tournaments and we are a chapter of that organization. We represent Albany against the other MSBL chapters in the country and internationally. Yes, those chapters combine players, but we do our damn best not to. We hold our own, but would be better served if we were not what Don Ball said was a watered down version of what we could be. True, not the problem of those who don't play in these tournaments, but there is great pride from us in this chapter and we want to be as prepared as possible.

But again, this is not the main point. From all the posts, not seeing a favorable disposition for the draft. Don't take Lex's point lightly; 7 on one team is just scratching the surface. 17 of 21 not entering the draft is staggering - if that turns out to be the final tally.

jk



-- Edited by sfgiants on Tuesday 19th of December 2017 10:57:05 PM

I have a quick question in regards to the draft. First off I dont feel like I would like to be part of a draft entering a new division. But the question I have is why has the draft been instituted in just the 55 Division? If parity is the true reason for the draft then all divisions should have a draft. Was the draft implemented for parity or as a way of stopping a specific team from becoming way better than everyone else? The bottom line is guys want to play with their friends and where they are comfortable!