Does anyone else feel like this whole draft in the 55+ division should not be decided by the managers? This whole issue of a draft is too emotionally charged, in my opinion for the decision to be left up just the managers. Each of the managers has their own agenda, whether it be that they need help making their teams competitive, or they want to make sure that there is a place for the 60+ crowd has a place to play, as their skills deteriorate with age. This topic has been hotly debated for some time now, and the time to make some kind of final decision is nearing.
I feel like, since a large number of dues paying members of our league are directly affected by this controversial rule, this issue should be decided by a vote of all of the 55+ players, and those who will be eligible in the next 5 years. The players already in the division are affected by not being able to have their friends be able to join them without first playing a year on another team (based on the draft). The players who are eligible to join this year and in the next five years are directly affected by not being able to choose the team that they want to join, without first playing a year with a team that "drafts" them.
I don't want to debate the pluses and minuses here. I just want to know what you all think is the best way to decide the issue: 1) 8 managers deciding the fate of all who pay to play in the division. 2) The Board of Directors decide because they are the elected officials that are charged with deciding the direction of our league. 3) A vote of the rank and fill of all players 50 years of age or older.
What say you? Let your voices be heard.
-- Edited by mgirard11 on Thursday 18th of January 2018 08:49:32 AM
I agree that this draft is not a good idea for the league. I have teams in all division and I am known as a recruiter, and have formed many great teammates. I am always looking for the next guy, not looking for the hand out. Also as a player who is age eligible, its my choice not yours, so Let them play. Somebody find Chuck Norris for The deciding vote!!
Jim Bonaparte 18 Ducks 33 Indians 45 Yankees Manager for all
Read the post please, Mr. Bonaparte. We want to know if you think that this should be decided by the 55 managers, the Board of Directors, or a rank and file vote. Geesh.
LOL
-- Edited by mgirard11 on Thursday 18th of January 2018 02:32:47 PM
You exceeded Bones attention span by the second paragraph.
Im on the Board so will wait to see what is proposed to us in our upcoming meeting. All Board meetings are open to all members. Topics are open, provided that agenda items are submitted prior to the meeting (we have to make sure there is enough time for all of them).
There will probably be three board meetings prior to the season at a minimum, with one typically in January for season plan approval.
I am for option 3 , but also think the board should get involved, as the 33 commissioner I can say The Board scrutinizes our season plan every year, and overruled our decision as managers to go from 3 hit batters to 4, but it definitely appears they should listen to this a repeal this decision for the betterment of the division and league as a whole, because it is clearly apparent the masses dont want a draft. Jim Bonaparte 33 Commish Former board member
I believe that as many as 7 of the 10 members on the Board are in the 55 Division. Jim Porter and Don Wixon have already expressed their desire to keep the draft. Porter is a GM (Whiz Kids). John Reel is the GM of the Marlins. John is also the division's commissioner and the league president. Wixon is on the Marlins.
Respectfully, they should abstain if No. 2 wins out. But again, No. 3 is my choice.
"Too much is decided for us by a few managers behind closed doors. "
Some fact checking .........
1 - The doors were not and are not closed. Reference two players who attended the latest meeting. All are welcome to observe and perhaps comment. 2 - It's time for the originator of the draft idea/s to step up and voice his philosophy and thinking behind the draft idea. 3 - The draft was taken to the Board who approved it according to CDMSBL rules and procedures.
Why would players 5 years out from 55+ eligibility have any say in this? Id like to hear how all current 55+ League members feel about the draft.
Mike Ferraro
Excellent point.
And #2 assumes that the elected Board officials represent the players. If they vote in their own self-interests (which is fine, it's their prerogative) then their votes should be made public and be subject to scrutiny by the players. If we, the players, don't like the direction of Board members we can vote them out in the next election cycle. I have no problem with a Board of Directors making decisions on behalf of the league as long as they stand up and be accountable for their votes.
Option #3 is just kind of like making a decision by a ballot referendum. That's not always best practice. I mean, in this case it might be a good method; but as Mike F. said, since this affects only the 55+ division, perhaps the best people to ask are those in the 55+ division who were subjected to the draft in the first place, or those who are eligible to enter the draft but have not.
sfgiants wrote:
No. 3.
I believe that as many as 7 of the 10 members on the Board are in the 55 Division. Jim Porter and Don Wixon have already expressed their desire to keep the draft. Porter is a GM (Whiz Kids). John Reel is the GM of the Marlins. John is also the division's commissioner and the league president. Wixon is on the Marlins.
Respectfully, they should abstain if No. 2 wins out. But again, No. 3 is my choice.
jimk
I don't think those Board members who are in the 55's should abstain. Their job is to vote on what's best for the league. As long as they stand up and be accountable for however they vote, they should be allowed to vote. Like Mike G. said, no "behind closed doors" decisions. Vote and make it public.
Based on my offer to manage an expansion team in the 55s IF the draft rules are modified to allow players to choose their preferred teams I have been directly involved in the GMs' debate regarding the draft. I have attended the meetings and I have been included in the email discussions. Throughout my involvement I have heard comments from GMs and from players in the division that provide very strong arguments for modifying or eliminating the current draft rules. Despite this input I have seen GMs who support the draft remain firm in their position without any willingness to find a compromise solution. Understandably they are protecting the interest of their teams. But they are not serving in the interest of the division as a whole and they are certainly not looking out for players who oppose the draft. Based on my experience, I think the vote should be in the hands of the players or the Board of Directors.
As a matter of procedure, the BOD does have the authority to either approve or deny rules that are unique to a division. As Jim Bonaparte stated, the BOD has scrutinized and denied rule changes requested in the 33+ division. In fact, the BOD demanded revisions to the 55+ draft policies when they were introduced in 2016. One change that I recall was that players who were drafted and met their game attendance requirements could become unrestricted free agents the following year. So the BOD does have the authority to review the current draft rules and request changes. The ongoing debate between the 55+ GMs has included proposals in which players who have a preferred team can join that team and players seeking a team can enter a draft. As a current board member I will be pushing the GMs to find a similar solution.
I do think that the bulletin board provides a forum for the players to voice their opinions. It is easy to see that most of the comments on this issue are in favor of eliminating the draft. I hope that all players will continue to offer their input. I would just ask that we keep the comments respectful and avoid any personal attacks.
I feel that the 55 guys have formed lasting friendships throughout the 33's and 45's so the idea of playing for someone else is absurd. I feel the 55 league should have a roster of about 17 players due to the fact all us old guys get hurt. Then when the rosters are filled if any team needs more to fill their roster than they should get the right to choose from whom ever is left. The idea of the 55 teams batting 12 to 13 during the year and then going to only 9 when playoff time comes is saying to the guys who busted their butts to get the team to the playoffs we could have done it with out you. Playing ball at 55 and over is a thrill and if you think everyone in the league is interested in playing until August 1, than watching that is a crock. Play more games and if it means a few more dollars per man for umps so be it. Playing at the 55 level is fun and it should be somewhat competitive but the fact the managers have decided that a draft is necessary is an insult. Put it up to a vote of all 55 players. Fred Pidgeon
This may not be a scientific sample, but I believe that when ZERO guys are in favor of the six managers making this decision, then options 2 or 3 should be the way that this gets decided. By the way, there were ZERO comments in favor of keeping the draft. I believe that the rank and file has spoken. Just sayin'.
There is no mechanism in place to allow #3 to be the deciding factor.
The process is that the GM's and commissioner submit a season plan that is reviewed by the Board so the only viable options are #1 and #2.
For what it's worth over the years I have been a board member I have heard all sorts of scuttlebutt about this happening or that happening and "everyone" is aware of it and we should look into it. I normally respond with the statement "put your information together with some supporting information and we absolutely will address it" and literally no one has ever followed through with this info.
This applies here as we see "20 guys are refusing to play". If that's true then my feelings are we certainly need to address it when the season plan is submitted. I'm aware of one person who sat out and another who didn't want to make the trip to Kingston for half the games (a legit concern in my book). My suggestion is for the players to reach out to their GM and the board members and not only let their opinion be known but also to provide specific, credible information.
In any case the initial step is for the GM's in the 55's to discuss this and then present their season plan. I know there have been some discussions about having players new to the league with no tie to any team or GM enter a draft which seems to be reasonable so let's let them hash it out then see what happens. Something very similar took place in the 45's with the new people who inquired about playing but didn't know anyone being offered to the last place team first, then second to last etc.
And while that happens put specifics together rather than vague statements.
SO I guess I may be unique but I don't see the draft as a negative so Id just let the elected oficials decide. We don't need the whole league voting and leaving any hanging chads. Just my thought.
Just for Fact Finding regarding why the 55 Draft was started. Below is a repost on the leagues BB to my question from the always gracoius Mike Hart manager of the Peppers about the 55 draft and waiver players back in Dec. 2015. I hope this clarifies what the managers in the 55's at the time were hoping to accomplish. Skol Vikings!!!!
"hi tony - i'm only one of the eight managers, and clearer answers to your questions may likely come from league president
john reel or from your manager, jim konstantakis.
i don't have my notes from the 55 managers meeting in october in front of me now, but, using memory, this is what i understand:
at our meeting in catskill, the managers decided by a 7-0-1 vote - and the league's board later approved - a draft for the 55 division.
the draft is set to take place in january or february and the draft pool will consist of those players who are coming
up from the 45s and want to play in the 55s. the lower-level teams from the previous year's standings draft first,
followed by the mid-level, then the top teams. So, the choosing order is 8, 7, 6, 5 etc. it's one pick per round.
players who've not played in the 45s in the past three years, or players who've not played ball in cdmsbl, are considered
"community players," that is, they can be recruited by any manager and not be subject to the draft. the draft pool
is still being established, but this year it could run anywhere from nine to 15 guys. in 2017, considerably more guys
are expected to be eligible than in 2016, so the draft size may double.
the managers agreed that to play in the 55s, the draft eligible players from the 45s, must play one full season (at least 7 games;
i.e. be playoff eligible) for the team that drafts them. players who do not agree to play for the team that drafts them cannot play
in the 55s. at the end of the season, the drafted players, like all 55+ players, become free agents, and can go where ever they
like. so the draft binds a player to a team for only one season. the drafted players are, of course, free to stay with the team
that picks them.
as for the waivered-in players, i believe you're right, that they can stay with their team and would not be subject to the draft.
speaking of waivers: one other idea behind the draft is that it could well put an end to most waivers. teams generally get waivered
players because their rosters are smaller than anticipated. depending on the size of the pool and the draft slot, a team could pick
up as many as two or three players this year. in subsequent years, with a larger pool, perhaps more players.
you're right, too, in that the decision for a draft was made to improve parity. all the managers felt three things:
(1) the same teams that tended to win in the 45s were wining again in the 55s; the standings were much the same; the result
that the best regular season games tended to occur only about half the season, usually among the top four teams;
(2) the other contests, between, say, the no. 1 and 8 clubs or the 2 and 6 teams, often resulted in too many mercy-ruled games.
managers and players are tired of mercy-ruled games: it's not only lack of taut competition and the one-sidedness of the games,
it's also the fact that many players who come a long way to play (from massachusetts, connecticut, vermont especially) are upset
with mercy-ruled games that typically last 1.5 hours, the games are boring, and guys get little time to play or bat. guys want tight
games that go 7 innings with the outcome in doubt till the end.
(3) one or two players who join a team can make a real difference in that team's play in the upcoming season. everyone knows,
for example, that a team without a good catcher will have a hard time winning. or, the flip side, a team that picks up a good
pitcher can see a record change in one season from 4-11 to 8-7.
the goal, we agreed, was to have a division where every team plays competitive ball all season long. the ideal would be to have
the final standings range from 9-6 to 6-9 for all the teams.
the argument against having a draft has always been that "guys join the league to play ball with their friends." a draft
can ruin that chance.
we get that. but among the replies to that thought are: (1) not every guy joins to play with his friends; some guys join solo;
(2) guys often develop friends on the new teams they join; (3) competing against friends, and comparing notes with them
afterwards, has its own rewards, (4) guys can still stop for a (non-alcoholic or not) becks on the way home and razz each other;
(5) guys join the league to play baseball. they pay to play the game, not to play on a certain team. (that they end up on a team
together is the result of some crafty managers' recruiting and players' maneuvering. which takes us back to teams that
end up with 14-1 records and others that end far south of that.)
but, from the managers' point of view, the most important possibilities with the draft are these:
(1) good, tight games for most of the season;
(2) lower level teams stand a chance of rising in the standings, an exciting prospect for those who've dwelled for long in or near the cellar;
(3) the playoffs should be more exciting;
(4) teams, from the top to the bottom, will have recruiting pressures eased. one of the most difficult things in the world, short
of brain surgery, is trying to find healthy, athletic guys, 55 and up, who want to and can play baseball. that pool is microscopically
small. the rest of that age group is eyeing barcaloungers and retirement homes in boca raton;
(5) one major goal of the division is to keep guys playing baseball for as long as they can and want to and for as long as it's
practical. with that in mind, the more teams we can keep functioning and playing at a decent level (teams that don't fold because
of poor play when too few talented guys join them), the better the chances we'll keep squads going with spots for lots of guys.
will the draft work? we'll see. i hope so. i think it's a far-sighted and generous action on the part of my fellow managers.
to answer your last question, tony, why the other age divisions aren't doing this? i don't know. one thing, for sure: they can
watch us to see how it goes.
-mike
p.s. i'm sure you and anyone who wants to come can get more information at the mandatory gm meeting tonight at the rail yard
restaurant on central ave in colonie. -m.
I actually commented on the original thread on this subject and have since just observed. After viewing all the comments I now understand each sides view. I am eligible for the draft this year and I did put in for it. However my circumstance are a bit different I only joined the league about 4 seasons ago and I don't have all the roots with friends that a lot of you have. However the friendships I have made are at this point lifetime friendships.
I am fine with whatever the league decides but if I had to make a choice I would go with option 3. Lucky for us this is America and we are supposed to be a democracy.
My main reason for writing was to just let every one know that there is a way to do a vote it's online through a program called survey monkey and I believe it's free. It's not 100% full proof and some integrity is involved but just getting to know all of you this past several years, I'm pretty sure that this isn't an issue. I hope this helped. It may even be good tool for CDMSBL to gather information about what league members would like to see in a confidential and anonymous manner. If assistance is needed I would be more than happy to investigate further if the board would like. Just let me know!
2) The Board of Directors decide because they are the elected officials that are charged with deciding the direction of our league. (and to represent the interests of the players)
I also vote that the 45 division play all their games on Saturdays!
Here is your chance to have your opinions on the 55+ draft rules heard in a more formal setting.
The board of directors will meet on Thursday, January 25th. We are trying to find a time and place for the meeting so stay tuned to the bulletin board for that information. Discussion regarding the 55+ draft will be on the meeting agenda. Hopefully the discussions that take place at the BOD meeting will persuade the GMs to reach an acceptable solution at their next meeting which will take place on January 29th. BOD meetings are open to league members so you can attend and present your position in person. If you would prefer you can email your comments to notes1b@yahoo.com and they will be read aloud at the meeting.
