To the CDMSBL: In 2004, I was asked to form and manage a new team to the league - Blue Thunder. After lots of money, time, sweat and hard work, we became a solid team made up of a fine class of gentlemen one could only dream of. Due to personal reasons, in 2008, I turned over the helm to Bob Weitz, who lead the team to 15-1 and 11-5 records over the past couple of years. Why this post? Why is this great team folding? To build a terrific team over the years, just to see it fold, is a bit sad. Is there anything I or the league can do to save this team? Enough said - Bob Lounsbury former player/manager of Blue Thunder.
I, too, am disappointed that the Thunder folded. It really is disappointing to see an original team fold, especially when it has been so successful over the years - and as you mentioned, 26-6, the past two.
The Thunder was just a couple of key hits away from getting to the finals in 2011. Had they stayed in tact, there is no doubt that they would be right there again battling for the title in 2012. I personally don't see how allowing a competitive team like that fold is in the "best interest'' of any division. It keeps a division competitive. But I'm just one person; one opinion. And I know many disagree with me.
We, meaning the Board of Directors, should be answering questions anyone has re: CDMSBL, or at least steering you in the right direction to get those answers. Since no one commented to your post, I'll answer your question. The only thing you can do is have someone from the team appeal to the Commissioner to prevent the move; then appeal to the Board if you do not get what you are looking for.
An appeal should probably be made before Feb. 1. That is not a "Rule,'' but Feb. 1 is the deadline for which players can change teams without permission, though players doing so must inform their managers in writing, i.e., text/email, before that date.
The CDMSBL Rules are on a link on the CDMSBL home page to the right of the page in a box under "headlines.'' The Rules are the 2nd link down.
Take a look at rules 4-6, 4-7 and 4-8. Perhaps you could cull from that what you will and file a protest. Or perhaps Bob Weitz can file the protest, or someone on the team before it folded can file a protest.
That's the only answer I have for you, Bob. You indeed built a great franchise and left when it was still on the way up. I don't know how many BT players are originals, but I believe Matt Kelly is one of them. He's the Ed Kranepool of the BT, and I especially feel for Matt because his loyalty represents the true meaning of sportsmanship. He struggled thru some bad teams, yet never waivered from that loyalty. Players like Tim Brown, Pete LaFlamme, et al, didn't deserve to be deserted.
You're right Bob.. the Blue Thunder shouldn't fold but it seems that a new manager needs to be identified. I want to make it clear that those who elected to make a change did so within the guidelines of the league and are not awful team mates for doing so. I am disappointed as well because I would have thought this would create an opportunity for another to step up and take over. This still is possible. I was the sponsor of the team who provided home and away uniforms and hats. I think these should all be turned in and given to the new manager who can build his own Thunder squad. I appeal to any individuals inthe league to step up and just do it! If I can help in any way please contact me.
As for the team "breaking up' I think it demonstates that our league is competitive and we play to win... The thunder was comprised mainly of a group who traveled long distances to play. Including our manager. That takes a bit of a toll on you and adding in the extra work of organizing the group, that's a difficult job. Our average team age was close to 55 so we weren't getting any younger. Therefore the current members have chosen to make changes. I know some don't think age should be a reason but if you survey our squad I think you would find that the general consensus was that we weren't getting younger making it tough to compete. I think it is sad that the Blue Thunder is folding but it doesn't have to. It will take a couple of years (maybe!) to build a contender and they might not be very competitive for a couple of years (maybe) but the team shouldn't fold.
Bob we need you back to keep it going or we need someone who wants to be a manager to take over the team!! Any takers out there??
it was this issue of the thunder's sudden and dark disappearance that sparked my call here, about four weeks ago, for a free agent period and a non- compulsory draft.
it disturbed me that no one, aside from some insiders, knew that deals were made between various thunder players and at least three managers of talented teams, deals that effectively pulled the foundation out of the 11-5 thunder.
it's my understanding that after about 6 guys left the thunder for what they think are more promising teams, thunder player don ball tried to organize a new team with the fellows who were left and could not get enough guys. after trying for several weeks, he gave up that ghost.
the fact is that it's not easy to keep a core of guys and recruit new ones if the person doing the recruiting is not the manager with some connections to the age divisions above or below him, or with some knowledge of available players. it's particularly difficult if the recruiting is being done in mid- to late-november, when most teams are already set and getting more than a handful of players is hard.
the point i've made several times here is that a non-compulsory draft with a fixed, free agent period of two or more weeks could stop all these surprise movements in the future.
under my proposal any and all changes to the rosters of any team would have to go through a free-agent process. that would include a public posting of all the teams that are folding and all the guys available as free agents before any deals could be finalized. if future free agents pop up after the initial free-agent period, then a public posting would have to be made and another two-week waiting period would be in place before players could officially transfer. during these waiting periods, any manager could make an offer to the free agent, who is, to overuse a word, free to make any deal he'd like.
this process would also put the brakes on any instant moves, where, say, one player decides he wants to hop from one team to another in the late spring. he'd have to wait two weeks before the move could be made. and anybody, including the manager of the team he's thinking of leaving, could make an offer for his talents.
again, this process would NOT prevent guys on any team from making deals with managers of teams they'd like to join. they could make the deals in august for the following season, for all anybody cares. but it would mean that before these deals could be official, they must pass through the public and open free agent period where everybody knows what's going on and where every manager would be free to make an offer to the agents.
-mike
-- Edited by mhart on Tuesday 3rd of January 2012 01:57:54 PM
Gentlemen... I would propose that the course of what has happened to the thunder team was not out of dark, back room deals and leaving fellow team mates in the lerch but of a normal progression of a group of guys getting older and having changes in their lives. To think that anyone of the guys who made moves in the off season did it secretly and in a way that was destructive is not true. Frankly I'm disappointed that was even alleged. The reality of it is that we play and compete for a championship and to have fun, creating strong bonds in the brotherhood of the game. Suggesting that there was this damaging change created is not correct. I suggest that if one closely examines the team and the players one would find that this move was part of several moves that could of happened in this off season. Blue Thunder needed to recruit and that didn't happen. The reasons for that is what we should focus on. Whether it be feeder systems, drafts or the like.... in this case it was just one of the scenarios that was truly possible and it happened in a way that one thought would play out. Again there could still be a blue thunder team if a manager was willing to take it on. The question is who, there's still time. Mike do you have any ideas as to who could take over the team??
If former Rolling Stones' guitarist Mick Taylor and bassist Bill Wyman recruited a drummer, rythm guitarist and a singer should they go on tour as the Rolling Stones? Don't you need Keith Richards, Ron Wood, Charlie Watts and Mick Jagger to really be the Rolling Stones?
So if Don Ball, Bob Weitz and Stan Parese recruited a dozen new guys and gave them all Blue Thunder jerseys, woud we really be the Blue Thunder? The real Blue Thunder had classy competitors like Tim Brown and Pete LaFlamme and Matt Kelly and solid pitchers like Jon Martin, Jim Ansel and Ron Massaroni and hitters like Pete G and Steve Vangelder. Those are the guys and the competitive spirit that the rest of the league associated with the Blue Thunder team. The team had a good run, we enjoyed our years together and now we have moved on.
I don't think that is necessary that there be a Blue Thunder team. The league evolves. One team folds, new teams form. The 2010 Blue Jays had an outstanding inaugural season and will be back for more. The Shasky's from the 35s have petitioned to join the 45+ division. Former Thunder players will be seen on the rosters of at least four other teams. And we'll all have a great time playing baseball in a great league with a great group of guys.
You can't always get what you want But if you try sometime You just might find You get what you need
Well said Petey and Donny ! It seems the only ones having a problem with the Thunder are guys that weren't on the roster the past three years!!
I, too, am insulted by the "back room" deal inferences. I play ball where, and with who, I want. I think the "silent" majority is pretty happy with the overall competetiveness of the CDMSBL divisions.
guys - let's get a couple of things straight. i've never said that the deals that these players have made have been underhanded or illegal. in fact, i've said more than once that they were all perfectly legal.
that doesn't make them good for the league, or for that matter, good for all the players and teams involved.
it's true that i have called them "dark," and, since that word can have shades of meanings, let me change it to "quiet, obscure and largely unknown" deals.
jonny may be right when he talks about the "silent majority" here, suggesting that many of the players are happy with the system. but if he re-reads the entries on the draft issue, or he re-reads former thunder manager bob lounsbury's note at the top of this streak, he'll see that more than one player is not altogether pleased with what has happened.
and what's that? from my small perch, it's that six very talented thunder players made arrangements to make other, top teams stronger and to let the equally talented thunder fold. and they did it largely unbeknownst to the rest of the league. again, the way things are set up now, that's legal.
now, this movement may be, as don suggests, the way things evolve in this league. i suspect league historians can go back and find this isn't the first time players have left a successful team to go to other successful teams. (certainly, they've left weak teams to go to stronger ones.) the departures could be a function of age, as pete suggests, or personality, chemistry, who knows?
and jonny hit the mark again when he said no one will tell him with whom or where he can play. nothing in my previous notes has said that that's the goal of the free agent draft. in fact, it's just the opposite. i want jonny and everybody to play with whomever they want.
more that that, i want more for them, as in more options.
the trouble i have with these deals so far, and all that have preceded them, is that they are done out of public view, hence, in the dark. other teams find out about them by way of the grapevine, or at teams' first practices or when the rosters are posted on the league's website.
what i'm suggesting is that (1) players continued to be allowed to make deals with whichever managers they please, whenever they please; (2) but in the late fall, all deals be made public and (3) that they be held up, not made official, until after a short free-agent period during which (4) all the managers have time to look over the deals and, if they like, make offers to the free agents to come play for them. the players (5) would then accept or reject any offers that come their way.
i cannot now think of any reason to void any deal. i'm open to hearing of any but without a compelling reason, i don't think we should have any mechanism in place to prohibit players for going with whomever they like.
this proposal is really, if you think about it, just capitalism, the free market, at work. (less, of course, a few hundred million dollars and a few other expensive perks that major league capitalism enjoys.) players would go where they get the best offers, where they're most wanted.
but this draft is not only about the best players. it's about ALL the players who are free agents, either because they choose to be or because their team folds underneath them.
for example, it could very well be that a team that finished fifth or sixth in the standings sees that an unheralded but decent player (say, a third baseman with a fair glove, a singles hitter who regularly bats around .290) is available and would fit the mid-level team's needs. the top-ranked teams don't need him because they're stacked. so a deal can be struck, and in the process, the middle-level team is strengthened, the player knows he has a team for the upcoming season and he has a deal he likes. the draft then saves the mid-level team's manager the time and worry of looking for a new third baseman and it saves the free agent the same time and worry of hunting for a team.
beyond that, if all the managers discuss the free agents at a draft meeting, that might insure that some players who've become free agents are not overlooked. the managers might make a gentlemen's agreement that they'll try to offer all free agents at least one spot on a team.
i would think this free agency rule would not apply to recruited players who've not played in the league before. someone who's say coming over from a softball league would be a member of the team that recruited him without first going through free agency. once there, if he wanted to go to another squad, then the draft rules would apply. on the other hand, an unrecruited but new player could put himself into the draft.
public knowledge of what's going on in the league, in this case, through a draft, should only increase players' freedoms, and, in the process, should, i hope, help strengthen all the teams and the league. if that's the case, everyone wins.
again, i've gone on far more than i ever dreamed i would or frankly wanted to. it should please most readers to know this is my last word on this topic until and if i'm invited to answer any questions before the board, which i'd be happy to do. i'm hoping the board will consider the issue and, in time, vote on it.
-mike
-- Edited by mhart on Tuesday 3rd of January 2012 07:39:56 PM
I see no problem with what Mike is suggesting. It gives players more options to strengthen their ability to find a team that is the right fit for them, and at the same time it gives managers the ability to negotiate with free agents to explain how their team would be a good fit. This way, everyone has the same information and players still have all the power in their final decision.
As far as I know, there is a list of free agents posted each season on the web site, for all teams to contact. Whether you agree with Mike's draft proposal or not, the Blue Thunder situation is totally different.
As Pete said earlier, nobody anticipated the Thunder would fold. I gave my notice as early as possible so as to allow the Thunder to fill some spots. Other Thunder players, subsequently, decided they wanted to leave, and in the end, there apparently wasn't enough interest in continuing the team - (unless maybe Shasky's merge?) Therefore, there wasn't a "date" that the team decided to fold, to allow for some form of a mock draft. This all could very well have happened at the end of January instead of November.
In any event, through "contraction" the overall division will be more competetive. Apparently the Shasky's, from the 35's are contemplating a move to the 45's. Rather than simply allowing them to join the division, this may be a perfect time to experiment with Mike's idea of a draft. That roster could EASILY be absorbed by the current teams,(again strengthening the overall division).
Allow the Cougars the first couple of picks, (Frank your chance to get another catcher!!) then the Cyclones, etc. based on last years finish. As someone pointed out earlier, we are all friends in this league, so dispercing guys to different teams shouldn't be a problem. Theoretically, the last two picked Shasky's would end up on the Champion Giants!!
Perhaps my "A" and "B" division idea wasn't so bad?
In all seriousness, maybe the answer to the problem is to address the teams doing the acquiring of players rather than the players themselves? Or derive some sort of incentive for teams who keep their rosters in place over time?
To tell you the truth about the end of the Thunder, there are a number of pissed team members that remainded after Ron M, Pete G.,and Jon Martin booked!!!!! It's the way it was done, no meeting, no discussing, no nothing!!! It was a plan from what I've learned, and it happened in Florida I guess. Yeah, I'm gonna say it, and we were really let down, and to tell you the truth, still continue to have a bad taste about all of this.as well as others, but no one wants to state it, so I'm speaking for everyone. The whole story is, myself, along with Steve Vangelder tried to keep the Thunder together, that's the truth. Keep in mind, we've only been on the team for 2 years no less. We tried, but they booked. We contacted the 3 players that left us for the Reds , stating to them that we are working on finding a new manager, and just stand pat, and we'll work it out. No, they already wanted to leave, and never really worked on improving our club, so stated one of our former teammates. It is what it is. In the same token, everyone has there own needs and wants. This will blow over, and everything will be normal when the season starts. It's just a very SAD way to see a team break up, and a competitve team at that. If anyone wants to discuss anything, by all means contact me or Steve Vangelder. No reason to table this at a board meeting. The players wanted to leave, and so why would we want to force players to stay, when they don't want to, it's very clear now. Jim K, yes, it's a damn shame!!!
None of this will change the reason we all play. for fun. I was with the 35 Marlins for 5 or so years, a few guys wanted to join another team. I applaud them for rekindling relationships from years past. No worries. The only that that's constant is change will come...not to mention I've had blast with the Pirates. Not worth losing sleep over.
